Curse

Short · Jun 20, 2009, 10:42 AM // 10:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

so, killed some of the mesmer lovers. i mean, cop was overpowered in cryways, sure, but was quite fine when vqing with h/h or something. moving cop to domination line and moving cry of frustration to sunspear instead would be much better.
two main mesmer skills got nerfed and well, most of other mesmer skills aren't that much used in pve. i mean, for someone who really likes mesmers and plays primairy mesmer with almost-mesmer-only skills, the nerf is unpleasent. but well, we'll probably get used to soon.

is the RoJ scatter added to pvp npcs as well? i mean, jq/fa? cause that was the major issue i think.

ritualist and paragon buffs are really nice. well done.

but still, no 'love' for sf :3

You would move CoP to Dom and CoF to Sunspear? What.

ManMadeGod · Jun 20, 2009, 11:00 AM // 11:00

I have a question about Lingering Curse, from GW official site and wiki developer update :

Both mentioned:
Lingering Curse: decreased recharge time to 5 seconds; increased Energy cost to 15.

But the recharge wasn't changed, it's still 10 seconds.
Is 15en with 5 recharge still overpowered?

Thamior Shamus · Jun 20, 2009, 11:14 AM // 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManMadeGod

Is 15en with 5 recharge still overpowered?

no as much as it was. it would take a lot more e-management to be able to keep it on the entire opposing team.

Arkantos · Jun 20, 2009, 11:18 AM // 11:18

Quote:

It WASNT that OP. the dmg really wasnt that bad and neither was the degen.
If you die by the hands of that you are just bad. Period.

This, along with shameful fear and enduring toxin is 47dps. This along with a melee training you, you're going to die. Especially in areas like FA/JQ/AB where moving is one of the most vital things to do. If you're hexed with these and there are no monk around, you're screwed. That necro just completely screwed you over. Sometimes a skill isn't overpowered by itself, but because of its effect with other skills and tactics.

idicious · Jun 20, 2009, 11:27 AM // 11:27

Thank you a-net

You outdid yourselves on this one, now on to the SF nerf

draxynnic · Jun 20, 2009, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Excerpt, PUGging as a Post-Nerf Mesmer, Day 1:

Finding a PUG proves noticeably more difficult than previously. In fact, the first group that "accepted" me dropped me after about thirty seconds without asking for my build or giving an explanation. Must have realised they'd accidentally accepted a hated Mesmer into their group.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lopezus

Maybe but speedrunners will prevail with CoP nerf, no doubt about it, while mesmers in pve alreardy have been pretty much useless, and nerfed CoP is still the best skill mesmers can take on their skillbars ( it sums up where this class stands in pve).

Exactly but it shows mesmers position in PvE, CoP is still the best mesmer skill in pve, but after nerf, other classes won't bother equiping it since they can come with something better.

I don't think it's that bad... but enough people seem to think it is to be a problem, and turning one of the few generally effective Mesmer elites into a niche skill doesn't help. Some more buffing of other Mesmer skills and elites to compensate does seem in order.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the jos

I'm only going to comment on the two changes that will have influence on PvE mesmers: CoP and VoR.
I think both are decent changes when looking at a single mesmer in the team.

VoR still antisynergises with the rest of the Mesmer skill line even if you only have one.

Frankly, I'd probably still use it if they'd just reduced the damage by, say, 15%. In its current form, though - keeping VoR at its maximum effect isn't worth holding off from throwing other hexes, and if you do have other hexes - even the humble Fragility - the remaining damage (less than Empathy, for comparison purposes) isn't worth the elite slot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawk of Storms

CoP now does MORE damage due to the degen damage, which doesn't stack. It isn't a nerf to a single mesmer using it in a balanced team. It's a nerf to a bunch of people echoing it and running team builds around it.

To be fair, it's a nerf to builds and teams that involve other sources of degen, too (I'm rethinking using Conjure Nightmare as Auspicious Incantation fodder, for instance). That's a minor niggle, though, even if a lot of degen sources are from Mesmers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by toocooltang

Maybe if you played in 05 you might remember all nerfs that happened then. AOE scatter, dying nightmares in UW, loot scaling, bundle tanking, scarabs in the desert and the list goes on and on.

To be fair, the real reason bundle tanking got killed was because of how it interacted with Ritualist ashpots. (I think it even worked during the Factions PvE weekend.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael805

They're holding a big ass pot, and magically get more energy?

Oh, ok.

It's to compensate for not having the staff or weapon/offhand set... and remember that the pots themselves are magic.

ogre_jd · Jun 20, 2009, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

so, killed some of the mesmer lovers. i mean, cop was overpowered in cryways, sure, but was quite fine when vqing with h/h or something.

And it's still fine when playing outside of the gimmick team build that it gave its name to. You just can't have several Mesmers getting together to pummel groups of foes into dust with it anymore, which is a good thing.

Enon · Jun 20, 2009, 01:52 PM // 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael805

They're holding a big ass pot, and magically get more energy?

Oh, ok.

This response is... epic. (And I never ever use that word)

IlikeGW · Jun 20, 2009, 02:29 PM // 14:29

The rit changes are really bizarre. All people wanted was a revert to Rit Lord days instead they try some new totally untested stuff... thanks?

"Shelter: decreased casting time to 1 second; increased spirit level to 1..12."

Still 25 energy? Why?

Kotetsu Rain · Jun 20, 2009, 02:34 PM // 14:34

That Necro wells skills text 'bug' thingy. Does that mean that Linsey's thinking about reworking wells? Like if there's no corpse around that you sacrifice health instead like some blood skills?

That'd be pretty interesting.

Sifow Chan · Jun 20, 2009, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Yay finally some love for the Paragons

coil · Jun 20, 2009, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by angelsarc

Of course YOU think it's good, because it benefits YOU. I don't care what the majority of players thinks is good or bad. In general, players don't know what is good for the game and are only concerned with what benefits them. Anet pretty much went and said that they don't like speed clears and certain areas were not meant to be completed in that way. That's it. Since you love to ask "Who cares?", I'll answer that for you. Anet cares and that is really all that matters. Players come and go, but once Anet gives up the game is done. Go ahead and quit. It'll probably be better for you.

from update (anet):

Quote:

Runs, Solo Farming, and Speed Clears

Players have long asked for our viewpoint on these ways of playing through content. For the most part, we think these are acceptable ways of playing Guild Wars but may occasionally take steps to increase their difficulty or even block a particular build. For instance, when it comes to Shadow Form, there is little concern about solo farming in most places; however, the speed clears of our most difficult content have become fast enough to warrant a more watchful eye. Over the coming months we will monitor these areas and, starting with Cry of Pain, make adjustments where necessary.

i think we can all agree that when players "know" they like to play the game it's "good" for the game.

Devonas big Sister · Jun 20, 2009, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Due to the overpopulated server combined with my kinda slow internet I wasnt able to read every page and don't know if this was posted before:

Ritualist Binding rituals cast pretty fast now. Which i think is great. Saves me about 5 minutes worth on castingtimes in long HM missions which in factions can be the difference in master or expert reward.

But here is my point:

----------------------------------------------------------
Soul twisting...This elite skill was already useless in my opinion.
But now with the casting times down to less than a second in most cases, this elite has lost the very little use it had completely.

For those not familiar with this skill: Soul Twisting reduces the casting time of your next binding ritual by 66% and makes it recharge instantly.
----------------------------------------------------------

This skill should get a functionality change right away.
I have an idea about that which wouldn't hurt the game.
Since it is a skill that makes the next binding ritual recharge instantly, why not make it kill a spirit and in return recharge all your binding rituals.

@Kotetsu Rain: I believe they reworked the wells in a recent previous update already. Not sure about which 'bug thingy' you are referring.

About CoP and RoJ: Hawk of Storms is right about the damage on CoP. Personally i like the idea behind this update. The same goes for RoJ for the very same reason:
It is more fun to play imo when you have a group full of different builds instead of a spike team.
I know that in a lot of cases a spike team works best, but it starts to bore very quickly in my experience. (Don't judge me on this one, you may think otherwise and I wouldn't blame you for it)

About Spirit Siphon: The targeting is indeed bugged as ManmadeGod mentions.

@ManmadeGod: Signet of Spirits does NOT have an attacking delay if you call a target outside of the spirits bubble but within spiritrange (which is about halfway between the bubble and the compass' edge.)

About SC's: Love to do them, hate the fuss about it before you can enter.
And even when you have a group, 80% fails.
They wont nerf perma SC's because the build already relies on consets.
But they aren't encouraging the use of different build either.
So instead of whining about perma this, perma that, you should cry about the lack of other professions to do (almost) the same thing and come with suggestions so the devteam might get some good ideas that won't destroy the game.

(And if you want to do SC's for the money you are in the wrong place to get it)

Aldric · Jun 20, 2009, 08:35 PM // 20:35

"Find Their Weakness!" functionality changed to: "For 5..20 seconds, the next time target ally attacks, that ally also inflicts a Deep Wound and does 5..50 additional damage for 5..20 seconds."

Just realised that this is just conditional on attack only so the DW is triggered by wanding. (someone prolly pointed that out already and ive just missed it)

Not sure on the thinking behind that , although it seems good i cant help but think that would have been better activated on next attack skill.

Necromas · Jun 20, 2009, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Mesmers don't suck in PvE without Cry spamming.

It's just that many party leaders don't know mesmers can do good PvE builds, or don't trust mesmers to do good PvE builds. And I can sympathize with the latter because I've seen plenty of mesmers with builds that look like they were just randomly thrown together (of course this happens with any class, but it's easier to do a bad PvE build with a mesmer than most classes).

Teysar kitait · Jun 20, 2009, 08:58 PM // 20:58

wow i really like this, especially the changes to VoR and CoP, they're skillful

make people think about how they use them without ruining their usage.
fair enough about their ideas for changing SCs, i'm glad they won't nerf SF, cuz it's vulnerable to many things the same as 600/smite is (actually 600/smite is probably prone to less) and so it gives another class than monks an effective way of farming.
whoever says about nerfing mind blast... why? they only buffed it a few months back, i love this skill, it's like flare + attunement and it's elite. so it's got its elite status for that reason which i think is fair
i also very much like the buffs to rits...never played one before but i'm very much tempted by this, and paras look like they'll be used more as they were meant to rather than just for imbagon usage, hooray!

thank you to the devs for the update, by the looks of it it was definitely worth the wait.

Longasc · Jun 20, 2009, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kotetsu Rain

That Necro wells skills text 'bug' thingy. Does that mean that Linsey's thinking about reworking wells? Like if there's no corpse around that you sacrifice health instead like some blood skills?

That'd be pretty interesting.

It might give blood magic a reason to exist in PvE outside of some Orders and Spoil Victor builds.

Maybe they also find some ways to make Necros more interesting in PvP. Without everyone crying for a hex nerf or so and basically removing the class again in favor of other hexers like Mesmers, which is a bit sad.

Nightow · Jun 20, 2009, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by IlikeGW

The rit changes are really bizarre. All people wanted was a revert to Rit Lord days instead they try some new totally untested stuff... thanks?

"Shelter: decreased casting time to 1 second; increased spirit level to 1..12."

Still 25 energy? Why?

After testing a AP ver. of the Rit Lord setup, I have to agree. 15 energy at most, please?

Coney · Jun 20, 2009, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightow

After testing a AP ver. of the Rit Lord setup, I have to agree. 15 energy at most, please?

Recup also still 25. way too high. Whatever, just roll with those on a necro (LOLz).

Kawil · Jun 21, 2009, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

This, along with shameful fear and enduring toxin is 47dps. This along with a melee training you, you're going to die. Especially in areas like FA/JQ/AB where moving is one of the most vital things to do. If you're hexed with these and there are no monk around, you're screwed. That necro just completely screwed you over. Sometimes a skill isn't overpowered by itself, but because of its effect with other skills and tactics.

Ah...so anytime there isn't a monk you're screwed? Oh my, lol! In those areas you mentioned, it's usually necessary to bring some kind of self heal. It's not my fault if the melee or whoever didn't bring one.

Perhaps it's the power creep on mostly all skills that got us spoiled however, I still think it's a steep nerf for necro primaries. I would've gone for a nerf like those skills that disable other skills (if they aren't of the primary profession---sorry, don't remember names). Besides, no one ever said a warrior couldn't bring PnH, lol.